Purely for example, the IPD Volvo kit is made for the model Volvo and comes with the option for a lighter 22mm rear bar and a heavier 25mm front bar to mirror a closer to factory anti sway bar feel, without the risk of giving an otherwise unready driver a higher chance of oversteer.
Rule of thumb, front wheel drive is under steer happy and rear wheel drive is overseer happy. Drift nerds, we are looking at you! Additionally, the benefit of a heavier duty front and rear anti sway bar, is the exceptional body roll control for our performance driving customers as well as those who choose to drive a lowered car. One thing that is important to note is construction. Many aftermarket companies and some factory manufacturers create their anti sway bars out of hollow steel instead a solid steel like some better aftermarket performance companies.
Because of the solid steel design we see less failures in our bars and consistent performance. Though some bars will be near the factory size for your vehicle, it is a stronger and more rigid solid steel that will show a sizeable difference when it comes to your vehicles performance.
After all, the bar is built to not easily bend or give in to pre-load and the diameter alone is not the reason behind that performance. Most anti sway bar kits utilize heavier brackets than factory and polyurethane bushings that take and transfer energy from performance driving much better than factory rubber.
The entire kit is built around performance and upgrading the factory suspension reaction. Most anti sway bars, mounts and bushings install into factory locations on your vehicle and require no additional fabrication or specialty tools to install, usually. It is key to find a kit that not only supplies a better bar but also supplies upgraded bushings and brackets to help with supporting a stronger anti sway bar system in your car.
The next suggested upgrade would be your sway bar end links, they are essential in controlling the anti sway bar motion as well as taking the brunt of the impact from the performance that the upgraded sway bars give.
Stay tuned for my next article on sway bar end links AND as always, leave your comments or questions below. Sway bars don't "apply pressure to the light side". That phrase does not mean anything, mechanically. What a sway bar does, mechanically, is lift the inside wheel and take away support from the inside side of the car. The outside wheel goes "up" into the car or the car sits "down" on it, but taking the car as the geometrical base is simpler.
The sway bar propagates the same movement to the inside wheel, so now instead of hanging "down" and providing some support to the car it also goes "up" into the car. Because the inside side of the car now has less support from the inside wheel, it takes more force to lift the inside side. Thus, in the same corner, it will roll less.
It becomes obvious when you remember that no matter how the car rolls it never lifts both inside wheels. There is not enough force to lift the inside without the inside wheels providing some support.
Remove some support and you make it roll less. More interestingly, this is used to redistribute traction between front and rear. Suppose you put a relatively stiffer bar in the rear. The car leans, the rear inside wheel is lifted by the rear bar, but the front inside wheel is allowed to hang down freely and support more weight. Now you have more traction in the front.
The reality is that with stock springs and ride height, sway bars on a Miata or just about any other car that really lacks roll resistance is not going to affect balance much and instead just add grip since the roll is being minimized so the tire is producing a better contact patch.
BTW, don't just ask on a forum. Get yourself some literature and study up on it. Stiffer sways at one end transfer more weight to that axle which leads to higher slip angle for that tire contact patch. More slip angle in front is usually called Understeer, more in back, oversteer.
There are differences in initial turn in balance, steady state and power on corner exit connected to weight transfer from braking and throttle. If the new sways duplicate the OEM sway balance, no or very little change in cornering. Less roll angle doesn't mean better grip, it means different grip in relation to existing wheel camber.
Miata suspensions have close to ideal camber curves as lean angle changes. Camber settings are usually more optimized to expected side forces to keep optimal tire contact across the tread contact area. High cambers to optimize grip and wear at the limit will wear unevenly during calm street driving and vice versa. Drivers are a lot more sensitive to control response time, less to ultimate grip. Stock suspensions can duplicate track G-forces of race suspensions in steady state turns with the same rubber due to the excellent camber curves of suspension geometry.
Stiffer sways do change transient behaviors, helping the car settle to a steady state faster than softer total spring rate. Stiffening springs to do the same may not be comfortable on the street. Top end suspensions allow significantly stiffer springs with good ride quality. It's what you know that isn't so. Ask anyone running E Street if adding the RB 1. According to your statement above it should have since they didn't change the rear bar the same amount too.
Originally Posted by gtxhawaii. No, the stiffer front sway keeps more weight transfer on the front outside tire. More understeer in steady state doesn't mean it pushes if you turn in while the front is weighted from brake forces. Trail braking also can improve early rotation by keeping the rears light. Initial turn in is very important on tight autocross courses, missing an apex can ruin the next turn or 2, killing a lap.
Steady state is relatively more a factor in long track turns. High angle steering inputs in tight corners also transfer weight to the front corner, the stiffer bar helping maintain reasonable lean and camber change. Getting the rotation started precisely counts heavily when corners are linked. A track with fast 3rd to 5th gear corners, and straights in between most, would call for considerably different setups for best lap times, and cars wouldn't face ES suspension limitations.
Feedback I see here has been that the FM sway set is fun on the street and autocross, if legal Just an even larger front sway is common , different camber and sway choices do well on more open tracks. The amount of looseness I'm happy with in 2nd gear on a tight autocross course with less than RWHP probably would use up lots of shorts on a high speed track, particularly with substantially more HP. More stiffness at the steering wheels can help lap times more than a less favorable FRC hurts.
Camber adjustments can help compensate to improve effective FRC with the larger front sway. Originally Posted by hector. Stiffer in the front, understeer Stiffer in the rear, oversteer. Where you end up depends on where you started. As in most of Physics, an important rule to keep in mind is: Everything Affects Everything. Two other primers for study: farnorthracing. MadCat, Hawaii, did you guys read the OP's question or my response at all?
He has no idea of what is going on with the suspension. And, he is dealing with a stock suspended Miata. Try to keep you responses simple and to the point instead of bringing up bell curves and physics and slip angle theory, blah blah blah MadCat, your hyperbolic examples are meaningless. One, if a race car has lb springs it's because it needs them for maximum grip as if it needed less spring rate the race team would add them.
Two, why would a race team with lb springs change to a 65lb spring? Three, what does this have to do with my quote that E Street Miata's have "unbalanced" sway bars and do not understeer? Stay on topic so you can help the OP visualize why a sway bar would affect the handling balance of a Miata.
Hawaii, your ramblings are contradictory and if you ask me, made up. Why would adding sway bar stiffness add slip angle? All of a sudden I'm going to have to turn my steering wheel more to turn because I added sway bars? Why would you say that less roll angle doesn't mean better grip?
You say that in you first reply and then contradict yourself in the second reply. Take a look at the picture in the link and tell me those are "excellent camber curves"!
And you expect a stock suspension to replicate G-forces of race suspensions on the same rubber with that much body roll and dynamic camber? Then you go off talking about track use and the differences to autox. I wonder if you have ever been on a track or driven an autox car on a track? Personally I haven't ever been on a track but I have observed track set-ups as compared to autox set-ups and they all had higher rear spring rates and or bigger sway bars.
I'll stop there. Essentially the rear tires are overpowering the front tires and the vehicle goes straight. While dangerous for a novice driver, an experienced hot shoe can control this with the throttle for more aggressive driving. Sway bars can provide adjustments to driving dynamics like understeer and oversteer by transferring weight to different corners of the suspension as the vehicle navigates a corner.
In many cases adding a rear sway bar when there isn't one from the factory, or adding a stiffer rear sway bar, can make a system designed to understeer either neutral or oversteer. Body roll is a reference to the load transfer of a vehicle toward the outside of a turn. When a vehicle is fitted with a suspension package, it works to keep the tires in contact with the road, providing grip for the driver to control the vehicle's direction. This suspension is compliant to some degree, allowing the vehicle body, which sits upon the suspension, to lean in the direction of the perceived centrifugal force acting upon the car.
Sway bars are a part of the suspension specifically designed to address body roll. Body roll of the vehicle body and chassis relative to the ground is not necessarily bad. Most performance suspension setups try to keep the frame of the vehicle as parallel to the ground as possible to maximize tire contact patch aka handling. However, completely eliminating body roll can also create a very stiff ride, so finding a balance that keeps the suspension geometry working correctly and the body parallel to the ground thereby controlling the vehicle's center of gravity while also maintaining a comfortable ride is the key.
Why should you change your antiroll bars from the stock ones? Well it's pretty simple. Enthusiasts typically demand more from their cars than the average driver. They need improved handling, increased high-speed stability, and better traction. Properly designed and tested antiroll bars give a car, truck, or SUV optimum handling potential and chassis balance.
This is accomplished during testing by changing the roll couple changing the stiffness of the front versus rear antiroll bars to achieve the optimum handling balance. Generally, the factory setup on a performance vehicle is neutral to slight understeer, but it depends on the application and vehicle.
Auto manufacturers are out to give the average person the car that will suit most of their needs. If they install larger antiroll bars, stiffer springs, and lower the car, they will create more customers that are dissatisfied with their car than if they offer a "detuned" car. They opt to cut cost, and raise customer satisfaction ratings by offering a decent, if not mediocre, car. This leaves considerable room for increases in the suspension's performance or "tuning" using aftermarket parts.
Sway bars explained Basically sway bars reduce roll and dramatically improve handling. They connect one side of the suspension to the other with attachment points generally on the lower A-arms and frame chassis , and twist to limit the roll during cornering. As the truck enters a corner, centrifugal forces create a body roll force. This force is limited by the twisting actions of the sway bar.
The stiffer the sway bar, the more resistance is extended to counteract the body roll. Too much sway bar stiffness creates excess pressure on the outside loaded tire causing a loss of traction. Sway bar stiffness is calculated by the force required to twist one end versus the other and calculated in lb-in.
Sway bars work off of torsional force twisting motion. Therefore, the material in the center of a solid bar plays little role in the resistance of torsional force.
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